<blockquote><h1>“Constraints often lead to the most creative solutions."&nbsp;</h1></blockquote>&nbsp;Let’s start with a short bio. How did you get into design?&nbsp;Donald Roos (DR): "I was born in Bloemendaal, a conservative but affluent town near Amsterdam, into a creative and entrepreneurial family. My father owned a photography studio, and my mother had studied art but stayed home. From an early age, I was drawn to creating my own projects. At 8 or 9, my friends and I made a school newspaper with typewriters and rub-on letters—we even sold ads in our village.I went on to study Graphic and Typographic Design at the Royal Academy of Art in The Hague. After graduating, one of my professors offered me a job, but after six months, I realized structured environments weren’t for me. The idea of fixed vacation days made me anxious, so I started my own design firm."

<blockquote><h1>“My typography background gives me structure, but I also love creative chaos.”</h1></blockquote>&nbsp;The need for freedom can sometimes clash with the realities of working in design. How do you balance the two?DR: "Freedom—or at least a sense of freedom—is crucial to me. I struggle with being in the same place every day, which is why I prefer working with freelancers instead of full-time interns. I want the flexibility to set my own hours.But with freedom also comes the need for discipline. It’s important to work on something every day—if not for a client, then on your own project. Working with freelancers keeps your team flexible and fresh. Especially for personal projects, it’s inspiring to collaborate with people who either do the same thing but think differently or do something different but think the same way.Of course, the downside of interns is that they’re there every day—even when you’d rather have a day to yourself. [laughs]"&nbsp;Talk us through your process: is it structured, or is it chaos?DR: &nbsp;"A mix of both. My typography background gives me structure, but I also love creative chaos. I start with quick sketches—pen and paper or iPad—so I don’t get caught in details too soon.The key is to start, and the rest follows naturally. If I’m in a creative process, I don’t mind some chaos. But it should be organized chaos—intentional and focused. Cleaning my workspace often helps clear my mind. Or my house... though the rest of the family doesn’t always appreciate that."

<blockquote><h1>"I'm like a creative ‘tractor’—just pushing forward."</h1></blockquote>&nbsp;How do you approach a new project?&nbsp;DR: "I sketch a lot. I'm like a creative ‘tractor’—just pushing forward. Early sketches get immediate feedback, helping determine if we're on the right track."&nbsp;Do all of your clients understand the early-stage sketching process?DR: "Not always. About 80% of the time, it’s fine. Another 10% need more guidance. The last 10% don’t get it at all—they think rough sketches are the final product! Some clients push the work in a better direction with their feedback, but others nitpick endlessly. In such cases, I sometimes have to say, ‘I don’t think we’re on the same page.’&nbsp;It’s not that the client is bad—it’s just not the right fit. And that’s okay. It’s better to acknowledge that early so they can work with a designer who truly gets them. But overall, I have great clients."&nbsp;Has AI affected your work?DR: "Not as much as in other fields, since most of my clients are creatives who value human creativity. I use AI for placeholders and rough concept visuals, but it can’t replace the creative process—it’s just a tool."However, I think AI will increasingly handle repetitive design tasks, freeing up creatives for more strategic thinking. That’s where human ingenuity still holds the edge."

<blockquote><h1>"People think creativity means thinking outside the box, but real creativity happens within constraints."</h1></blockquote>&nbsp;How does a typographer become an author?DR: "It wasn’t planned. I was always creating things—books, apps, designs. While discussing an app idea with a developer—something we were actually using for a studio I had at the time—we kept coming up with new ideas. But whenever we had another ‘great idea,’ we’d say, ‘Great idea, let’s not do it.’That’s when I realized that choosing not to do something is a powerful creative tool. That insight became ‘Don’t Read This Book,’ which was followed by ‘Don’t Buy This Book,’ and my latest, ‘If You Don’t.’And, of course, I couldn’t have done it without my partner in crime, Anne de Bruijn, who turned all my concepts and ideas into actual, readable books."&nbsp;Your latest book argues that sometimes doing nothing is the best choice. Can you elaborate?DR: "The title might sound passive, but it’s really about making conscious choices. For example, deciding not to fly forces you to explore other ways of traveling—ways that might lead to entirely new experiences you wouldn’t have had if you’d just taken a plane again. Constraints often lead to the most creative solutions.People think creativity means thinking outside the box, but real creativity happens within constraints. If you tell someone, ‘Make a painting,’ it’s too broad. But if you say, ‘Make a red painting,’ ideas start flowing immediately."

<blockquote><h1>"We’re living in uncertain times—things will change, one way or another… As creatives, we’re standing at a kind of blank slate, which also means there are opportunities."</h1></blockquote>&nbsp;Your book touches on sustainability. Do creatives have a responsibility to address these issues? &nbsp;DR: "It’s complicated. Creatives are often called in to ‘fix’ bad decisions made by those in power. Instead of finger-pointing, I see it as an invitation to rethink systems. Even small creative ideas can lead to change.We’re living in uncertain times—things will change, one way or another. Right now, we have to swallow some bitter pills. But in a way, I find that inspiring and challenging. As creatives, we’re standing at a kind of blank slate, which also means there are opportunities.Take something like not eating meat. You can see it as a limitation, or you can see it as a glimpse into the future. Meat consumption is unsustainable in so many ways—we all know it has to stop eventually. So why not start exploring what new possibilities open up when you leave meat out of the equation? Suddenly, a whole new world of flavors and ideas emerges."

<blockquote><h1>“We often accept systems without questioning them, but sometimes the most powerful thing we can do is to stop, reconsider, and choose a different path.”&nbsp;</h1></blockquote>&nbsp;Do you think privilege affects how people experience these changes?DR: "Absolutely. It’s easy to talk about sustainability when you’re financially secure. But if you’re juggling multiple jobs just to make ends meet, it’s simply not a priority. That’s why solutions need to be inclusive.I think many creatives don’t fully realize the privilege of being able to focus on creativity every day. Even if we’re not earning top-tier salaries by Western standards, we still make more than most people on this planet. That perspective matters."&nbsp;You say that sustainability is misunderstood. Can you explain?DR: "People assume reusable products are always sustainable, but that’s not necessarily true. A simple plastic bag might be more sustainable than a tote bag that requires huge resources to produce. We need to rethink how we consume, not just what we consume."&nbsp;Is your book a call to action or more of a thought experiment?DR: "Both. It’s not about telling people what to do, but about questioning why things are the way they are. We often accept systems without questioning them, but sometimes the most powerful thing we can do is to stop, reconsider, and choose a different path."

<img class="image_resized" style="width:25%;" src="https://tioc-cdn.ams3.digitaloceanspaces.com/1734005834646_71aac1e382.jpeg" alt="1734005834646.jpeg" srcset="https://tioc-cdn.ams3.digitaloceanspaces.com/thumbnail_1734005834646_71aac1e382.jpeg 156w,https://tioc-cdn.ams3.digitaloceanspaces.com/small_1734005834646_71aac1e382.jpeg 500w,https://tioc-cdn.ams3.digitaloceanspaces.com/medium_1734005834646_71aac1e382.jpeg 750w,https://tioc-cdn.ams3.digitaloceanspaces.com/large_1734005834646_71aac1e382.jpeg 1000w," sizes="100vw"><img class="image_resized" style="width:25%;" src="https://tioc-cdn.ams3.digitaloceanspaces.com/1734005839502_8c5cc103c3.jpeg" alt="1734005839502.jpeg" srcset="https://tioc-cdn.ams3.digitaloceanspaces.com/thumbnail_1734005839502_8c5cc103c3.jpeg 156w,https://tioc-cdn.ams3.digitaloceanspaces.com/small_1734005839502_8c5cc103c3.jpeg 500w,https://tioc-cdn.ams3.digitaloceanspaces.com/medium_1734005839502_8c5cc103c3.jpeg 750w,https://tioc-cdn.ams3.digitaloceanspaces.com/large_1734005839502_8c5cc103c3.jpeg 1000w," sizes="100vw"><img class="image_resized" style="width:25%;" src="https://tioc-cdn.ams3.digitaloceanspaces.com/Cover_Front_Y_Square_7cc1231044.png" alt="Cover_Front_Y_Square.png" srcset="https://tioc-cdn.ams3.digitaloceanspaces.com/thumbnail_Cover_Front_Y_Square_7cc1231044.png 156w,https://tioc-cdn.ams3.digitaloceanspaces.com/small_Cover_Front_Y_Square_7cc1231044.png 500w,https://tioc-cdn.ams3.digitaloceanspaces.com/medium_Cover_Front_Y_Square_7cc1231044.png 750w,https://tioc-cdn.ams3.digitaloceanspaces.com/large_Cover_Front_Y_Square_7cc1231044.png 1000w," sizes="100vw">Donald Roos is an independent typographic designer and creative entrepreneur. He regularly launches new projects because he loves executing fresh ideas. His biggest problem is having too much to do and too little time, so he developed the To Don’t List method. Together with Anne de Bruijn, he wrote several books on the subject for BIS Publishers, which you can&nbsp;<a href="https://www.bispublishers.com/brands/donald-roos/">buy here</a>.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;

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Donald Roos is a typographic designer, creative entrepreneur, and problem solver whose work spans industries—from designing film titles for major motion pictures to crafting intuitive UI/UX experiences for startups. With a relentless drive to execute fresh ideas, Roos thrives on launching new projects. However, like many creatives, he often wrestles with an endless to-do list. This struggle led him to develop the "To Don’t List," a method designed to bring clarity and focus to creative work by prioritizing what not to do.&nbsp;In this interview, Roos shares insights into his creative process, the importance of freedom in design, and how constraints can actually fuel innovation. He also delves into sustainability, systemic change, and the surprising power of choosing to do nothing.

DONALD ROOS ON CREATIVITY AND THE POWER OF DOING NOTHING

A bit of background info: before establishing Secrid, René and his wife Marianne ran a design firm for over 20 years, working with various clients across different markets. This experience would prove invaluable, allowing them to learn and apply their skills in diverse contexts. "We worked for different clients and markets, which was very educational and exciting," van Geer recalls. Eventually, they decided to channel their knowledge and creativity into their own venture. “We wanted to apply all we had learned to our own products and under our own brand,” he explains.The 2008 financial crisis was the final push they needed to fully commit to Secrid. The card protector they launched won the Red Dot Design Award, and the rest, as they say, is history. Today, Secrid's products are sold in over 8,500 stores worldwide, but it’s the owners' focus on creativity that really sets the brand apart. We sat down with René in the Secrid headquarters, housed in a beautifully renovated industrial warehouse in The Hague, to talk business.

<blockquote><h1>"Everyone is constantly engaged in creative activities.”</h1></blockquote>&nbsp;Creativity is quite a broad concept. I'd like to know your definition of creativity.RvG: “There are many degrees of creativity: people everywhere create their own world every single day. For some, that might mean baking a cake, while others change the entire recipe. The point is that everyone is constantly engaged in creative activities.”&nbsp;So, do you believe that people are inherently creative?RvG: “Everyone is creative. Again, the type of creative activity you’re involved in may vary. There are degrees of creativity depending on things like skills and other practical reasons. For instance, we used to renovate homes, and I would be very hands-on, painting walls and building furniture. All in all, it is a very creative endeavor but also a time-consuming one. The house we just moved into was already renovated. I didn’t want to spend more time renovating a house, so this time around, our focus is more on choosing the right rug, painting, or lamp. I don't paint or build furniture myself anymore because it simply takes too much time.”

<blockquote><h1>“Building a company is very similar to developing a product…You solve problems creatively, just like you would when designing a product.”</h1></blockquote>&nbsp;What does creativity look like in the work you do? Is there room for creativity when you’re the CEO?RvG: “Absolutely. Building a company is very similar to developing a product. It's never finished, and everything is constantly evolving. You develop processes, find the right people, and make numerous decisions, which is very creative. You solve problems creatively, just like you would when designing a product. When you start out as a designer, it can be hard to integrate a lot of different elements all at once. But over time, you learn to consider more factors in your designs, such as the user, the brand, the market, and the functionality. Good design considers all these aspects: you need to be holistic and ensure that what you create functions well in society and is commercially viable.&nbsp;Now that our company is bigger and we have a larger team, we can tackle projects more professionally. We have experts in areas where I lack knowledge, like ICT and legal, which allows me to focus on the creative aspects, which is where my strengths lie. We also try to make sure that the people who work for us can focus on what they’re good at.”

<blockquote><h1>“It's essential for the creative process to include various types of input, from those with engineering minds to those who are more abstract thinkers.”</h1></blockquote>&nbsp;Does working with such a diverse team impact your creative process?RvG: “It adds depth and perspective. Different viewpoints and experiences contribute to richer ideas and solutions. It's essential for the creative process to include various types of input, from those with engineering minds to those who are more abstract thinkers. For years, I’ve been working on a model of our production process, and I’ve narrowed it down to seven levels of abstraction: from the very abstract - the strategic thinking that our product team does - to the more practical art of selling the product, which is the domain of the marketing and sales team. This model is not unlike the chakra system, which also consists of seven steps, or chakras, that help us understand the interaction between body and mind. Each chakra represents a different aspect of our being. For example, the Root Chakra represents stability and security. People strong in this chakra are grounded and practical. The Solar Plexus Chakra is linked to personal power and confidence. Engineers and people who create structure tend to be strong in this chakra. And there’s the Third Eye Chakra, which is related to intuition and insight. This is important for strategic thinkers and visionaries. All these different chakras represent different types of creativity, and having a team with diverse strengths in these areas is crucial.”

<blockquote><h1>"We try to design our office spaces to meet varying needs, ensuring everyone has the right environment to be productive and creative."</h1></blockquote>

What does having a diverse workforce mean for the day-to-day business of running a brand?RvG: “Different roles require different environments. For example, the finance team needs a stable and quiet environment to ensure accuracy and concentration. They benefit from a fixed, calm workspace. Marketing and Sales need areas that foster interaction and collaboration because their work often involves brainstorming and communicating with others. The engineers and developers require structured spaces where they can focus on detailed work without distractions. In contrast, the creative team needs flexibility and inspiration; they thrive in dynamic environments where they can move around and be exposed to new ideas and stimuli.We try to design our office spaces to meet these varying needs, ensuring everyone has the right environment to be productive and creative. In the end, the environment you create must support both the practical and emotional needs of all those people. That’s why we focus on creating spaces that encourage interaction and collaboration. For instance, our espresso bar is a place where employees from all parts of the company come together, fostering informal discussions and idea-sharing.”&nbsp;How do you manage the balance between creativity and practical needs like deadlines and budgets?RvG: “It's about setting clear boundaries. Creativity doesn't have to be a long, drawn-out process. Even within time and budget constraints, you can make creative choices. The key is to prioritize and make the most impactful decisions within those limits.”

<blockquote><h1>“Creativity doesn't have to be a long, drawn-out process. Even within time and budget constraints, you can make creative choices.”</h1></blockquote>

Do you face any specific challenges in maintaining your company's creative edge?RvG: “Design is central to everything we do. We believe that good design can improve the world. This is why we partner with events like What Design Can Do and the Dutch Design Week to showcase how design can address various challenges. Our goal is to highlight the positive impact of thoughtful design on society. One challenge is ensuring that we stay innovative while also managing a growing business. It's a balancing act between exploring new ideas and maintaining the efficiency and quality of our existing products. We strive to foster a culture where both can thrive.”&nbsp;What advice would you give to other entrepreneurs looking to incorporate creativity into their business?RvG: “Surround yourself with diverse talents and create an environment that encourages experimentation and collaboration. Be open to different perspectives and don’t be afraid to take risks. Also, remember that creativity isn’t just about big, groundbreaking ideas; it’s also about making small, incremental improvements that add up over time.”&nbsp;Lastly, are there any personal rituals or habits that help you stay creative?RvG: “I make sure to integrate moments of relaxation and reflection into my daily routine. Whether it's taking a walk, meditating, or simply daydreaming, these activities help me stay open to new ideas. It's about finding a rhythm that works for you and allows your mind the freedom to wander and explore.”&nbsp;<blockquote><h1>“Creativity isn’t just about big, groundbreaking ideas; it’s also about making small, incremental improvements that add up over time.”</h1></blockquote>

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Creativity often takes center stage in the bustling world of product design and innovation. But at Secrid, the brand that has transformed the everyday wallet into a piece of innovative design, they went one step beyond. Here, creativity is not just a buzzword; it's a foundational principle. René van Geer, one of the founders and owners of Secrid, shares his thoughts on creativity, entrepreneurship, and the unique approach his company takes to fostering an innovative environment.

DESIGNING SUCCESS: CREATIVITY AT SECRID

It's the number one question we ask all our interviewees, and it's an important one: What is creativity?&nbsp;SS: "That's a question I explore at the outset of my book. Creativity is a multifaceted and ever-evolving concept shaped by cultural, emotional, and intellectual elements. It's a snapshot of our capacity to reimagine the world around us, demonstrating that creativity is not the domain of any individual but a universal trait we all share. In my view, creativity involves finding unexpected connections between previously unlinked concepts, leading to new meanings and experiences. This dynamism fuels innovation across music, art, design, and writing, challenging our assumptions and the context in which we view creativity.&nbsp;Take people like Einstein, Elon Musk, and even Kim Kardashian—each creative in a distinct area. Einstein revolutionized our understanding of physics. Musk is the kind of nutty professor who redefined automotive and space exploration, and Kardashian has mastered the art of personal branding and business. Sure, she smartly uses her looks to run her business, but she is an entrepreneur who has successfully launched several companies and is constantly coming up with ideas. Whether it's in the metaverse or a skin product, she keeps reinventing herself and the market; creativity is an essential part of that. So here we have three people who are very different from one another, and their creativity demonstrates the diverse nature of creative expression.&nbsp;As I went into dialogue with AI, it reminded me that creativity is the ability to embrace mistakes and see them as opportunities for lateral thinking and innovation. This perspective is crucial, especially in a world increasingly influenced by AI, where the 'human aspect' of creativity becomes more challenging to define."

<blockquote><h1>"AI is not just another tool; it's a revolutionary way to augment our creative abilities, offering new methods to refine our ideas and bring them to life in ways we've yet to explore fully."</h1></blockquote>

How do you view the rise of AI and its potential for or threat to creatives?&nbsp;SS: "As creatives, how we view AI—whether as a potential threat or partner for innovation—largely depends on our familiarity and comfort with it. History shows us that every technological advance, from the radio to Google, initially sparked fear because it was unknown and represented change. Yet, these innovations eventually became part of our daily lives, enhancing our ability to communicate and create.&nbsp;I firmly believe that approaching AI with optimism rather than fear opens up possibilities. AI is not just another tool; it's a revolutionary way to augment our creative abilities, offering new methods to refine our ideas and bring them to life in ways we've yet to explore fully. For those of us in creative professions, staying curious and open-minded about AI allows us to push the boundaries of what's possible in art, design, storytelling, and beyond.&nbsp;One fascinating aspect of integrating AI into our creative processes is the potential enhancement of our emotional intelligence. By leveraging AI, we might gain deeper insights into human emotions, enabling us to craft content that resonates more personally. Imagine movies that feel tailor-made for each viewer, not just through a scene or dialogue but in their entirety. This level of personalization in storytelling could redefine our connection with the media.&nbsp;In essence, we stand at the dawn of a new era in creativity, one where AI can help us better understand our audiences, create more impactful content, and explore new dimensions of emotional engagement. This journey is about discovery, and it's a fascinating time to be a creative professional."

<blockquote><h1>“The rapid advancement of technology, particularly in design, has fundamentally shaken the foundations of traditional creative work.”</h1></blockquote>&nbsp;Why write this book?&nbsp;SS: "This is my third book. My first, 'Read Nothing in Here,' was a playful yet profound look at understanding creativity by tackling 21 misconceptions designed to make creativity less intimidating. My second book was a sort of workbook, providing practical exercises to nurture creative skills.&nbsp;With this latest project, my third book, I delve into the complexities of creativity in the modern world. It's born from a growing curiosity about how creativity intersects with societal issues like bias and the evolving business models in the creative industry. The rapid advancement of technology, particularly in design, has fundamentally shaken the foundations of traditional creative work. My book aims to spark a critical conversation about these shifts, questioning how we define authorship, value creativity, and adapt our business practices in response to these changes.&nbsp;Writing this book was an opportunity to address the pressing questions that have intrigued me throughout my career. It's a culmination of my experiences and reflections intended to engage and challenge the creative community and beyond."

As AI rises, many worry about the future of creative professions like copywriting. What's your take?&nbsp;SS: "There's definitely a future. I see copywriters, for instance, turning into emotional intelligence writers. And designers into emotional design specialists. The titles don't matter, but the shifts in focus really do.The thing is, AI can automate basic writing tasks, but it lacks our depth in understanding and conveying human emotions. Our ability to distinguish and appreciate genuine human creativity will only grow, making our role irreplaceable."&nbsp;&nbsp;<blockquote><h1>“It's funny that AI reminded me that the beauty of human creativity is the ability to make and embrace mistakes.”</h1></blockquote>&nbsp;That's an interesting perspective. How do you see us staying relevant in this AI-influenced landscape?&nbsp;SS: "The key lies in partnering with AI, rather than seeing it as a replacement. AI can handle predictable tasks, freeing us to focus on creativity and emotional depth—areas where AI falls short. It's about using these technologies to push our creative boundaries and stay unpredictable. By challenging ourselves and staying curious, we can ensure our place in the industry. It's about adapting to AI and evolving with it to enhance our work.&nbsp;We also have to redefine what we're good at. It's funny that AI reminded me that the beauty of human creativity is the ability to make and embrace mistakes. AI is essentially built to be right; this is where we can thrive with our ideas.It's crucial for creatives to actively engage with their craft beyond professional briefings. Experimentation, personal projects, and constant learning are essential. As AI becomes more integrated into our tools, distinguishing our human creativity becomes even more vital. We must embrace AI as a partner without letting it dictate our creative expression."&nbsp;<blockquote><h1>“The key lies in partnering with AI, rather than seeing it as a replacement. AI can handle predictable tasks, freeing us to focus on creativity and emotional depth—areas where AI falls short.”</h1></blockquote>

There's a noticeable trend towards authenticity over algorithmically driven content. Companies choose to express their unique voice rather than optimize for social media. How sustainable is this approach?&nbsp;SS: "Choosing authenticity is not just ethically sound; it's a long-term strategy for differentiation and connection with audiences. While not every company can afford to ignore algorithmic trends, those that do often find a more engaged and loyal audience. The challenge is balancing business objectives with creative integrity.Imagine that in a year, more than half of all media is made by or with the help of AI: what's going to stand out? Perhaps these human errors (happy little accidents). It's a weird idea, but there's a truth in there."&nbsp;&nbsp;And what about the ethical aspects? As AI creates, where does that leave the originality and ownership of ideas?SS: "Ethics in the age of AI is a complex issue. While AI can replicate styles and ideas, it lacks human creatives' nuanced understanding and originality. The environmental impact of digital creations also raises concerns. We must work towards sustainable practices, respecting intellectual and environmental resources.But we also need to look closer at our own perspective. I, for example, never really considered AI as an author. In one of these chats, it said: ‘You didn’t make this alone; AI made it with you; who is the real author here?' I thought that was mind-boggling. AI then added: ‘ Authorship isn’t less valued, it's going to be more distributed.' I thought it was an interesting notion to consider when we discuss these topics from a human point of view."

<a href="https://www.bispublishers.com/the-new-creatives.html"><img class="image_resized" style="width:25%;" src="https://tioc-cdn.ams3.digitaloceanspaces.com/the_new_creatives_8baf03fd66.webp" alt="the-new-creatives.webp" srcset="https://tioc-cdn.ams3.digitaloceanspaces.com/thumbnail_the_new_creatives_8baf03fd66.webp 135w,https://tioc-cdn.ams3.digitaloceanspaces.com/small_the_new_creatives_8baf03fd66.webp 433w," sizes="100vw"></a>Enjoyed this interview and interested in reading more about AI and creativity?&nbsp;Click on the link below to buy Seema's book from our partner BIS Publishers.TIOC members can buy the book with a 30% discount using the code tioc30<a href="https://www.bispublishers.com/the-new-creatives.html">‘The New Creatives: How AI Changes the Face of the Creative Industry’ by Seema Sharma</a>&nbsp;

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The creative industry is buzzing with talk of AI: will it edge out human creativity, or can we work alongside it? Leading creative director Seema Sharma says it's all about teaming up with tech. In ‘The New Creatives,’ a book Sharma co-wrote with AI, she dives into how AI is shaking up creative work, from the skills we need to have, to how we think about our value. Join us as we chat with Seema about the future of creativity, where humans and machines might make the perfect duo.

SEEMA SHARMA: AI & THE CREATIVE INDUSTRY

Nancy’s&nbsp;work hasn’t gone unnoticed. <a href="https://amplifyher.me/">AmplifyHER</a>, the Women's Visibility Conference she started on the heels of the global pandemic, has sold out 2 years in a row. And together with Women Inc, BrandedU started a social media and PR campaign. Titled 'My Name is Peter',&nbsp;the campaign asked women to change their names on LinkedIn to Peter, in order to increase their chances of becoming a CEO. The awareness campaign, which made smart use of influential women to get major attention with hardly any media budget, won the Grand Prix at the Dutch Creativity Awards. High time we sat with this powerhouse.&nbsp;&nbsp;

What is your definition of creativity?&nbsp;NP: “Creativity for me is freedom. It's the freedom to explore and discover. I love history because it gives us context and shows us where we're coming from. But overall, I'm a very future-focused person, and I love the creative process of designing something new for the future. It could be a new sound in music or a new way of doing business, which I'm doing now. I built this business in a creative way. People told me that you could only be an entrepreneur when you have people working for you and follow certain rules that define entrepreneurship. But I said no, for entrepreneurship has to work for me. I was sick at the time and had to find a way to be an entrepreneur despite being ill.&nbsp;&nbsp;That meant not going to the office. I couldn't have the burden of constantly having to worry about paying rent or paying a fixed team of employees. I had to do it in a creative way and create as much freedom for myself as possible. And 10 years later, I'm still running this business on my terms. This creative approach also trickles down to everyday work: we just look at the problem areas and start fixing them. And that's basically what creatives do as well. If you work at an advertising agency, people come to you with a problem, and you come up with&nbsp;creative solutions. For me, creativity is about making yourself so free that the answers come to you."&nbsp;&nbsp;<blockquote><h1>“Artists never conform, and that's why they're my inspiration. They refuse to conform.”</h1></blockquote>

How do you do that?&nbsp;&nbsp;NP: "I love the quote: 'Be curious, not judgmental.' It's about thinking of what could be possible. How would things be if everything was completely different? It's the curiosity that we all have as kids. A lot of people have it knocked out of them. My parents had me when they were young, practically teenagers, and they raised me to ask questions and go against the grain. I was always asking 'why.'"&nbsp;&nbsp;You work with C-suite-level women, but your background is in music.&nbsp;NP: "I started out as a marketer in music. Marketing is about finding a target audience and selling a product. Branding is more about the 'why.' Why did we create this product? Looking back, we did a lot of branding in music back then; we just didn't call it that. We referred to it as marketing. But when we had a new artist we just signed, it was our job to make a connection with the audience. An emotional connection, because that's what music is. I can't sell Alicia Keys's record by running a poster campaign. You need to hear the music; you need the emotional connection. So it's nice to know the background info: why did someone write a song? It's about finding different ways of reaching our audience."&nbsp;&nbsp;You've also worked with international artists, and based on those experiences, you developed this Rock &amp; Roll Branding.&nbsp;NP: "For me, Rock &amp; Roll Branding is about showing yourself to the world and thinking about how you do it. The 'W' questions: Who am I? What do I do? Why do I do what I do? What's the value that I am bringing? And who am I doing it with? When you have answers to these five questions, you already have your story. I love storytelling, and artists are great storytellers. Why do you do what you do? And what do you want to be known for? It's about being conscious of your actions and the impact you try to make. You have to ask these difficult questions. If you are visible, then you can make it to the top. I want different kinds of leaders. If we want to turn women into the same leaders that men currently are, then what's the point? Then we might as well stick with the men. I want women to think about their leadership and know who they are. If you know who you are and why you do it, your self-confidence grows, and you are no longer afraid or embarrassed about sharing your story. Then you don't call it bragging but instead know the value of your story."&nbsp;

<blockquote><h1>“Music has always been my inspiration. I listen to music, and ideas come to me.”</h1></blockquote>&nbsp;On our site, we urge (young) creatives to share their story, process, and portfolio. Some are nervous or reluctant about tooting their own horn if you will. Seems like music artists have no problems promoting themselves and explaining their work.&nbsp;NP: "Not true. A lot of them do. Beyonce hasn't given an interview in years."&nbsp;&nbsp;OK, but she does know branding. And she uses it.&nbsp;NP: "Yes, because she's creative. And she figured out she didn't need journalists to tell her story. When I started in music, journalists and radio were gatekeepers. They decided who got access to their platform. Social media blew up the game. Creativity has exploded. Look at the number of TV shows, podcasts, and music. The gatekeepers are gone, so you no longer have to wait to be discovered."&nbsp;&nbsp;And that's a good thing?&nbsp;NP: "That's a great thing! But it also means that you must be creative in finding your audience. The true creatives will find an audience."&nbsp;&nbsp;Right, because while social media has enabled everybody to create a platform, the number of people vying for attention is overwhelming. How can you, as a &nbsp;creative, stand out and be seen?NP: "Stay as close to yourself as possible. When I started BrandedU 10 years ago, someone told me not to do it because there were so many similar things out there. But I knew I was creative enough to do it. Music has always been my inspiration. I listen to music, and ideas come to me. But I don't force it. I will spend three hours listening to Bob Marley songs. Artists never conform, and that's why they're my inspiration. They refuse to conform. When hip hop came up, some wanted to dictate what did and did not constitute hip hop, but artists said, '**** that,' and did their own thing. You can't compare Outkast to Eminem or Cardi B, yet it's all hip hop. That diversity and creativity are so inspiring to me. Music inspires me more than visual art because there's so much to dive into—the lyrics, the different sounds, the beats. They resonate with my soul and awaken something in me."&nbsp;

You make the creative process sound incredibly fun and inspirational. So, you never have any creative struggles?&nbsp;NP: "I do, but only when I think about what others expect from me. I need to stay close to myself, and I'm good as long as I do that. I'm creative. Creating an image is about making something that people expect from you. Personal branding is about you and your core values. It's the story that you want to tell."&nbsp;By the way, those feelings of self-doubt never go away. Every new project they’re there, but I’ve learned to lean into the discomfort. Leaning into discomfort makes you more intuitive, and I have learned how to use my intuition. I also learned from working at a record label that you must stop putting things in boxes. When I first worked with Alicia Keys, people in different countries said there was no single on the album. ‘Fallin’' wasn't considered a single. I didn't agree. And in the end, we were the first country in the world with a number-one hit and album. We got a fax from Clive Davis. So it made an impact.”&nbsp;&nbsp;With the events you organize, you also create impact. You often do things very differently than other business events: from live music to good food and a diverse line-up. And you are very hands-on. Why is that?&nbsp;NP: "I just want to create events that I enjoy. That's it. Pretty selfish, I guess, but I don't want to conform to what everyone else is doing. I want to bring my own creativity and make a unique experience for people. It's about being intentional and making choices that align with my values and vision. And that also means that everything from the playlist to the catering to the people working the event needs to align with my vision. I had an all-female stage crew and hammered on the fact that the catering crew needed to be as diverse as possible. Authenticity is key.”&nbsp;

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Creativity isn't, and shouldn't be, limited to those working in creative industries. Meet Nancy Poleon, founder of <a href="https://brandedu.nl/">BrandedU</a>, who is on a mission for more gender equality at the top of the business world. How? By making women more visible through personal branding. Before starting BrandedU in 2014, Poleon worked as a marketing manager for BMG in London, and she worked with artists such as Britney Spears, Alicia Keys, and Pink. She used her experiences and insights from the entertainment world to develop the Rock &amp; Roll Branding method.&nbsp;&nbsp;

NANCY POLEON: ROCK & ROLL BRANDING AND FEMALE LEADERSHIP

Yours is one of the few professions where the client is constantly involved, often physically present on the set. Is that ever frustrating?DH: "The client often dictates a project. Now I see myself as a visual creator who works 360 days a year; the client spends ten days a year on set, at most. So it’s my job and responsibility to advise them. I need to tell and show them how we can make things look better. And sometimes that’s hard. They might be happy with the first shot you take, and you then have to convince them there’s value in making things even better. But that’s my job. I have to do it. I owe that to myself and the client.”&nbsp;<blockquote><h1>Funnily enough, restrictions or guidelines can actually be quite helpful.</h1></blockquote>

Do you consider clients’ requests as restrictions or essential guidelines?DH: "When working for a client, you have to compromise sometimes. But there are limits. We once did a shoot for a banana company. We had a nice setup: good lighting, pleasing composition, and the works. And then, the client came in with this huge inflatable banana. It was too big and too plastic, and while we tried to include it in a shot, we just had to kill that idea then and there.Funnily enough, restrictions or guidelines can actually be quite helpful. There are no constraints when I do uncommissioned work, and I find that much harder. Having no guidelines, and no structure, can be pretty scary. When I do creative shoots, I just mess around and experiment a bit until something happens. I’ll take a prop of some sort. Put some light on it. Maybe throw in an ice cube or shake it around. I really let go of preconceived notions and just try to see what happens.”

Were you born into a creative family?DH: “My dad was a passionate amateur photographer and had great equipment. Unfortunately, he passed away when I was six years old. My mum is also incredibly creative and very musical. Being exposed to all these creative outlets from a young age influenced me greatly.&nbsp;Although my family is not large, we are a close-knit unit. After my father's death, we became even closer and always had dinner together. Those dinners were like a haven for us, where we could connect over food. That’s probably where my love for food comes from.I went on to study photography but also continued working as a chef. I began to do some food styling, and that’s how I ended up meeting Willem (ed. Willem Groeneveld, food photographer and founder of Twentyten). He ended up becoming my mentor. Willem can be tough, but he is really good at his work. His expertise and guidance have been invaluable in my learning process as a photographer.”

What is your definition of creativity?DH: “I was thinking about that on the train this morning, and it’s quite a difficult question to answer because creativity can be so many different things. I believe that creativity requires some sort of synergy to flourish. Personally, I find that I'm more creative when I'm in a comfortable and secure setting.When I meet new people or potential clients, I tend to be more cautious, trying to understand their perspectives and positions. Unfortunately, that process can stifle my creativity because I try too hard. But, in a supportive environment with like-minded individuals, where everyone shares the same goal of creating something beautiful, you can strengthen each other's creativity.” &nbsp;The creative process can make you feel quite vulnerable, so I completely understand the need for a safe environment. But as a creative, you also want to push the boundaries and step out of your comfort zone, right?DH: “Stepping out of your comfort zone is easier in a secure working environment, one where you know the people and have previously worked with them. You can still explore creative boundaries when working with a new team, but it requires more effort and dedication. It’s just a bit harder.It's a fascinating balancing act because, on the one hand, you aim to produce your finest work, something that comes naturally when you feel at ease. But, on the other hand, you also want to grow as a photographer, which can lead to tension between comfort and growth.”&nbsp;And then add that you do a lot of commercial shoots where time is of the essence. Talk about a balancing act!DH: “Exactly! You’re in the middle of a shoot, and our producer says we have five minutes left to take the shot. That’s just killing but also necessary. Otherwise, you’d keep working at it because you’re never done or satisfied.&nbsp;As a photographer, I want to take the best possible shot. But because I produce commercial work, the definition of a ‘beautiful’ shot tends to vary from what the client wants. The client’s primary objective is to sell a product, so I incorporate a pack shot and brand label, which are essential for marketing campaigns.”

Are you looking for those happy accidents, then?DH: "I’m a recovering perfectionist. Before, I was never really satisfied. I was tough on myself and always wanted everything to be perfect. But perfectionism kills all creativity. So I’ve learned to let go a bit. Usually, when I worked on an idea that wasn’t working for me, I got frustrated and would quit.&nbsp; Now I just keep working on something. I’m much more interested in the process that follows. Not knowing what will happen and not having complete control is crucial if you want to keep growing.The biggest challenge today is finding the time to grow. Of course, creating uncommissioned work is essential, but in the studio, we’ve been so busy over the past year that we haven’t made any, which is a shame because it's really important. It sets you apart from commercial work and is important for future clients who want something different.”&nbsp;Is that the most challenging part about being a creative and an entrepreneur: finding the right balance between creativity and commerce?DH: "It’s the four quadrants of Stephen Covey. There’s quadrant 1: urgent and important.&nbsp;Quadrant 2: not urgent but important.&nbsp;Quadrant 3: urgent but not important.&nbsp;And finally, quadrant 4: Not urgent and not important. As an entrepreneur, a lot of things fall under quadrant 1: the phone rings, and you can’t ignore it; you have to answer it and act. The uncommissioned work and all the prep work fall under quadrant 2. Ideally, I spent most of my time in quadrant 2 because 1 is all about crisis management or putting out fires, stuff you really want to delegate. I want to be working on uncommissioned work more so I can continue growing as a photographer and company. When you just keep churning things out and don’t experiment from time to time, you’ll miss out on projects and clients looking for innovation.”

Where do you turn to for some much-needed inspiration when you already have a heavy workload and busy home life?DH: "I try not to look at the work of other photographers because you unconsciously start copying things you like and I don’t want that. I also don’t like looking at the work or other studios because it takes away from your creativity. So instead, I look at things like design and architecture.”&nbsp;<blockquote><h1>“While sleep is very important to be creative, most of my ideas come to me at night.”</h1></blockquote>&nbsp;When are you most creative?DH: "I do all the important stuff in the morning because that’s when I’m sharp. And while sleep is very important to be creative, most of my ideas come to me at night. I often wake up in the middle of the night and immediately write everything down. I’m very quick and creative in the early hours of the morning.&nbsp;So I wake around 6 a.m., go downstairs, make coffee, exercise, take a cold shower, and start to work. I try to get the important stuff done before 11 am, and that’s when I have my last coffee of the day. After lunch, everything tends to slow down a bit, and we end the day at six. We don’t work late. At night the team is tired, and you just don’t create good work. I’d rather we all go home, have a good night's sleep, and return the following day.”&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;You have a great new, climate-neutral office, designed to cater to your artistic needs.&nbsp;DH: "Willem gets all the credits, I merely gave some input, but you’re right that everything here was intentionally built and serves a purpose. For example, we put the studio downstairs and face north to get soft light all day. We thought a lot about where to put the windows for the best lighting in the studio so that we could use daylight.”

What are the challenges you face as a food photographer?DH: “The biggest challenge with photographing food, whether that is a recipe or produce, is that it doesn’t stay the same throughout the shoot. It’s not a product you put in front of a camera and looks the same two hours later. So that is a challenge. It’s a race against the clock. Especially in the summer, when temperatures soar, you want the ingredients to look nice and fresh. And the strange thing about our work is that in the winter we shoot things that you would normally use in the summer, like strawberries and raspberries, so finding those is also a challenge.”&nbsp;But aren’t there tips and tricks to keep things looking fresh? I recall seeing a behind-the-scenes video where a food stylist worked with shoe shine and glue to make the food look appealing.DH: "We don’t use tricks. We like working with real ingredients and creating dishes you can eat. That’s what keeps our work looking natural and spontaneous. We’re food photographers, and it has to look and taste like food.”

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Didier van der Heijden, a former chef turned photographer, deeply loves all things food. He is the co-owner of Twentyten, a culinary photography and film studio in Amsterdam. Didier was raised in a creative family, with a father who had a passion for photography and a musically inclined mother. He has fond memories of family dinners in his childhood home. Now with a family of his own, he spends his spare time tending to his vegetable garden or cooking meals from scratch. But most days, you will find him in the studio, doing what he does best: capturing stunning images of food.

DIDIER VAN DER HEIJDEN: FOOD FOR THOUGHT

We meet up at Capital C, Amsterdam's creative hub, housed in a former diamond factory. Our interview takes place in the old clock tower, which Kessels has converted into a unique office space. All the walls and ceiling are adorned with a large, eclectic collection of clocks. You can rent the space for as long as you need, but be warned, when your time is up, a cacophony of sound will ensue as all the clocks go off simultaneously. Kessels demonstrates this by setting the alarm, and the sound of hundreds of clocks ringing at once is a jarring experience that only ends when you hit the big red buzzer, cleverly concealed within one of the larger clocks. "It's an effective way to bring a meeting to a close," Kessels says with a smile.

What is your personal definition of creativity?EK: “Ultimately, creativity is about doing things differently. When something is ‘different’ and unusual it surprises you, makes you laugh, or makes you think. Creativity is something that inspires people to think and see things differently. Plenty of people say they work in the creative industry, but they've never done anything creative. They're just robots sitting behind a computer, churning out content and following data. Which is why I think it’s more important than ever to put all your energy into your personality and your thought process.&nbsp;People think that creativity is about finishing something or making it perfect because that’s what we tend to focus on. We like to present the finished product: picture-perfect portfolios, glossy websites and Instagram accounts. But that's not really creativity. I usually explain it using the front versus backyard metaphor. The front yard is sort of a reflection of who you are: it’s a little bit creative, but on the whole it’s really a place for people to walk by and look at, which is why everything looks perfect and tidy. However, it’s the backyard that’s interesting because that’s where you’ll find the real creative stuff: unfinished proposals, passion projects, but also feelings of frustration and shame. It’s a place you fence off and where you spend a lot of time struggling and tinkering with things. It is here where ideas are born, which are then moved to the front yard for all to see.Many schools and companies only focus on the front yard – your portfolio – and not so much the backyard – your personality – which is such a shame. I believe that 90% of the time, the focus should be on students’ personalities, on their potential and on teaching them to think as extreme as possible.”&nbsp;

So I gather you believe that creativity is a teachable skill? Or is creativity an innate talent, bestowed on a lucky few?EK: “I am of the opinion that creativity is not an innate talent that people are born with. While some individuals may find it easier to let their minds wander and discard preconceived notions, that's really as far as it goes.&nbsp;Creativity can be hard work. Every time I have to come up with something new, I feel like a beginner all over again. At times, I'll feel inspired, and an excellent idea will materialize in just a few minutes. Other times, it takes weeks of aimlessly wandering, struggling through a maze of clichés to finally arrive at something worthwhile. It's always one of two extremes: either it comes to you quickly, or it's an uphill battle.When it comes to creativity, it's not just about putting in long hours, but rather about picking the right moment. Some agencies have a culture of working late into the night, ordering takeout, and pushing for another round of brainstorming. I don't believe in that approach. In my experience, no one ever came up with a truly innovative idea after 8 pm. I encourage people to go home, get some rest, and come back the next day with a fresh perspective.”&nbsp;<blockquote><h1>"Creative people who are successful can be a bit selfish or even a bit of an asshole but sometimes that's necessary.”</h1></blockquote>

What does that creative process look like?EK: “Most of the work is done in my head. I don't just sit behind a desk or a computer to work something out, instead I walk around mulling things over in my head, visualizing ideas and trying to come up with the best ones.&nbsp;I'm always ‘on,’ constantly on the lookout, discovering new things every day. It could be something I read, research, or some unknown artist I stumble upon. Then, I delve into it and find out everything I can. Sometimes I buy their work, read about them, or even try to meet them in person.I have this antenna and just pick things up from my surroundings, whether it’s conversations I overhear on the street or a note that’s lying around somewhere. I process all that information and then, through association, link things together to generate something new. And the hardest part in all of that is letting go of the fear that you might not be able to come up with something. Or trusting that a concept that pops up in just a couple of seconds is worth pursuing.I'm addicted to the thrill of generating some awe-inspiring idea: once or twice a year, I'm genuinely stunned by my own work. It's an incredible feeling to know that I produced something that surpasses my expectations, and I cherish these moments. They're unpredictable and can't be forced, but they keep me hungry for more.”

And then comes the moment of presenting that great idea to a client. Do you welcome or loathe feedback?EK: "I don't show my ideas to others until I'm completely satisfied with them. Then, after getting some feedback, I might make some small changes, refine the idea, but once it's finished, nobody can change my mind about it.&nbsp;Creative people who are successful can be a bit selfish or even a bit of an asshole but sometimes that's necessary. The creative process is inherently fragile, so I am mindful of that when collaborating with others. However, when it comes to standing up for my ideas and defending my work, I will fight for what I believe in. This doesn't mean being rude or unpleasant, but rather being assertive and confident in my vision.”

Speaking of a tense situation. How do you look back on the controversy following the ‘Destroy my face' project? (ed. Kessels designed an installation featuring ramps adorned with digitally altered images of surgically enhanced faces that were later damaged by the skaters who rode over them. Two young women initiated a petition requesting the organizers to remove the artwork.)EK: “I spent a year working on this project. I did extensive research, consulted with cosmetic surgeons. A team of roughly 100 people saw the project before its public release and no concerns were raised. There was never any red flag, so I was quite shocked when it suddenly exploded. It was very intense and for about four to five days I just stayed home, curled up under a blanket, watching National Geographic. But once the initial shock passed I wanted to take action. I reached out to the young women who started the petition but they didn’t want any contact. Under pressure of an American sponsor the work was removed but if anything the whole thing has motivated me to continue creating and pushing boundaries.”&nbsp;<blockquote><h1>“I'm addicted to the thrill of generating some awe-inspiring idea: once or twice a year, I'm genuinely stunned by my own work.”</h1></blockquote>

How do you push those creative boundaries?EK: “You have to keep taking deliberate turns in your thought process. Purposely make a mistake. Enlarge something or make it smaller. Turn something around or upside down. And have a beginner's mindset. Every professional started out as an amateur and it’s good to return to the kind of spontaneity and naivety that you once had.Sure things can go wrong, but what do you have to lose? You might hit a wall but then you just turn around. For instance, we once had a small assignment from a school in Den Bosch where they had a huge problem with garbage on their campus. And instead of solving the problem, we made it worse. There were plenty of trashcans on site but nobody bothered to use them. So we put a sign on them, which read ‘trash only’ and made it difficult to actually throw stuff in them. We put a fence around one and placed another one high up in a tree, which could only be reached with a ladder.”&nbsp;

Can the advances in technology help push our creative boundaries?&nbsp;EK: “Technology and all those tools are fantastic, but their value depends on what you do with them. There are always a few pioneers who make something unique or worthwhile using new technology, followed by others who produce uninteresting content. I remember when YouTube came up and all these companies insisted on having a video on YouTube. It was ridiculous, everyone was doing it and those videos had zero impact. Or take the opportunism and hype that came with things like virtual reality glasses: they’ve been around for two decades now and still haven’t caught on. The fact that there's a bit of a buzz with the metaverse now is just sad, with a commercial company feeling the heat. Take NFTs: the concept behind them is super interesting, and some people have made a real difference with them. But then the masses came along and ruined it all, and it became about quick money and clichés. Ultimately, it is individuals who can make a difference, and those with exceptional skills are becoming increasingly valuable as automation becomes more prevalent.”

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Erik Kessels (1966) is a Dutch artist, designer, and curator, known for his work in photography, advertising and publishing. He the co-founder and creative director of KesselsKramer, an independent communications agency based in Amsterdam. Kessels is a prolific artist whose work has been exhibited at galleries and museums around the world, including the Museum of Modern Art in New York, the Victoria and Albert Museum in London, and the Stedelijk Museum in Amsterdam. He is best known for his work in the field of photography, specifically his use of found photography, and to date has published well over 100 books. A conversation with a modern-day Renaissance man.

ERIK KESSELS: PERSONALITY OVER PORTFOLIO

Wouter Boon's career journey has taken him from law to advertising to branding and finally strategy. Following a brief stint as marketing director at MTV in New York, today, Wouter works as a brand strategist at Boon Strategy. His interest in creativity, however, never wavered and resulted in a book (‘Defining Creativity’), a podcast (‘Creative Achievers’) and guest lectures at different universities (NYU, Columbia University and Boston University to name but a few). He’s currently working on a second book about innovation, but was happy to sit down and talk about all things creative.

A lot of the people we’ve interviewed so far were asked to give their definition of creativity. Seeing you wrote the book on defining creativity, we’d love to hear your thoughts on this.WB: “Creativity is a broad phenomenon and because of that also a bit vague and open to multiple interpretations, depending on the field you work in. In the back of my book, I’ve included some 14 definitions of creativity but the true scientific definition is the creation of something new and valuable. And again, these are somewhat vague terms. Because what is new to me, might not be new to the world at large. And a term like valuable is also open to interpretation. But in general, creativity is all about creating something of value that wasn’t there before.”&nbsp;<blockquote><h1>"Creativity is all about creating something of value that wasn’t there before."</h1></blockquote>

Could you elaborate on this idea of value?WB: “Having a creative or new idea is just one part of the equation. You also have to be able to sell your idea. To demonstrate its value. That’s why I believe that creatives should also have sales skills, even though many creatives consider sales a dirty word. But you have to be able to talk about your work enthusiastically and persuasively in different social circles; you can’t be too modest when talking about your work because that’s what increases the perceived value of your creations.”Speaking of ‘dirty’ words: what role does money play in the creative process? Do you need money to be creative?WB: “Creativity doesn’t require money. However, if you want to give creative ideas wings you need to convince people of the perceived value of your work. You might be a creative genius but if you, or your ideas, never leave the house to tell people about it, it’s never going to take off.&nbsp;Creativity requires a certain level of wealth and welfare. When you have to worry about where your next meal will come from,&nbsp;there is less room for creativity.&nbsp;Money is the oil that keeps the creative machine going. Think of creative cities like Florence or Amsterdam where well-to-do families became patrons of art and innovation and allowed for creative minds to flourish and ideas to be put into action. Just look at the architecture of the time or the statues made by Michelangelo. Someone had to pay for that marble. Someone had to pay for those buildings to be made.&nbsp;But let’s not forget that these rich patrons had a deep love for art and creativity. Money alone isn’t enough. There needs to be a symbiotic relationship between the creative and the patron for it to be a successful collaboration.”&nbsp;&nbsp;<blockquote><h1>"Creativity requires a certain level of wealth and welfare. When you have to worry about where your next meal will come from,&nbsp;there is less room for creativity."&nbsp;</h1></blockquote>

What other factors make for a successful creative collaboration?&nbsp;WB “Creativity is very much a communal thing. Even if you’re a loner who prefers writing novels tucked away in some attic room, in the end, you still need a publisher. Or someone who arranges the interviews for you, the book signing sessions, the publicity, etc. Again that’s where the sales aspect comes in.In order for a creative plan or product to succeed you need to bring different people and skill sets together. Just look at how many people are involved in making a movie. From scriptwriters to set and costume designers. From editors to sound engineers. All those people bring their unique set of talents and skills. And while not everybody involved does something super creative, the whole thing becomes a kind of creative machine. The director heads that machine as the visionary brain, the one that orchestrates the whole operation and heads the entire team.Making a movie is a creative undertaking but also one that needs to make money. The studio, the investors: they’re not just doing it for the love of movies. They want a return on investment. So there is this inherent tension between commerce and creativity.The blockbuster is a good example. If a movie is a hit at the box office a sequel is a commercial no-brainer, but when people start milking a product it almost always affects the creative output. Investors want and expect a return on investment and that results in people opting for safe choices, which aren’t pushing the envelope creatively.”Playing safe, erasing risk: that seems a sure way to kill creativity.WB: “In brainstorming sessions with companies you tend to see that the bigger the organization, the safer the choices. Here you also see people milking success. Every company was once that young, fresh start-up full of ideas and ambition. But as a business, and the boardroom, grow, they tend to opt for the safe choice. And so the real challenge for companies isn’t coming up with fresh or creative ideas, it’s having the guts to act on them.&nbsp;When your company or organization is running like a well-oiled machine you don’t really want to mess with that. But while efficiency is great for a company in the short run, it’s creativity that you want in the long run. But that comes with risks attached to it. You have to be open to the process of trial and error, which is inherently intertwined with the creative process. You don’t know the outcome. You don’t know what the return on your investment will be.”

<blockquote><h1>"In order for a creative plan or product to succeed you need to bring different people and skill sets together."</h1></blockquote>

What can a company or organization do to create a climate that is conducive to creativity?WB: “People need to feel at ease in the place they work and they need to be able to collaborate. But they also need to be able to focus.&nbsp;That’s why you see more hybrid workplaces where you have open-plan layouts, combined with spaces where people can retreat and fully focus.Speaking of collaboration, if you’re at the head of an organization just make sure that different departments interact with each other. Have them communicate and exchange knowledge. Set up the office in such a way that they have physical encounters, even if it’s just at the water cooler."Finally, is it just us or is creativity omnipresent nowadays?WB: “It's difficult to say if there really is more interest in creativity but it certainly is something that’s in the air and a topic of conversation for many people. I think that can be linked to ever-advancing technology. With AI and other automated processes, the question becomes: what is the added value of human beings? In the future, we will have to depend more on our soft skills, including creativity. We, humans, are better able to make disparate connections, and link existing elements that are not obviously matching or not part of the same domain. And thus linking things that no one has ever thought of linking before. AI mostly makes obvious connections, that have been made before in some form or another. Humans are able to zoom in and out and have a wider scope of the world and of culture. And as a result, we’re better able to assess how something will land and whether or not something is of interest to a particular group of people. And that sets us apart from computers. For now at least.”&nbsp;

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In our continuous efforts to define creativity, we turned to the man who, literally, wrote the book on the subject. In ‘Defining Creativity’ Wouter Boon explains what creativity is and how it works, from different scientific angles.

WOUTER BOON: DEFINING CREATIVITY

Disch attended the Art Academy before working as a graphic designer at LAVA design. Subsequently, he worked as art director and team lead at Edenspiekermann and GRRR. Currently, he’s the Design Director at Bravoure, a Dutch digital agency. He leads a team that mainly designs for the cultural sector, creating big digital platforms for music festivals and museums. In addition, he's a guest teacher at several colleges, co-founder of the Variable Font Course, and has a newsletter on digital design and typography. In short: he is one busy man, but thankfully found the time to sit with us and talk about the creative process.&nbsp;

You wanted to do the interview here at the NDSM; why is that? [NDSM is a former shipyard and up-and-coming neighbourhood in the northern part of Amsterdam - Ed]JD: “Imperfection is essential to my work. Nothing is perfect here and that feels comfortable to me. In communication and design, you need imperfection. Our job as designers is to create memorable stuff. In order to be remembered, you want to stand out and be different from the competition. So imperfection, things that are a little weird or out of the norm, help to make something memorable.”

What is your definition of creativity?&nbsp;JD: “Creativity has to do with knowledge - you need to know your stuff - and it has to do with imagination and reflection.&nbsp;You need a couple of ingredients to foster creativity. The first one is play. Feeling free to play is essential when coming up with ideas, because when you play you're in a much more creative mood than when you're focusing on other things, like results. I allow my designers to experiment and fool around a bit.&nbsp;You also need boundaries. If a brief or project is too vague or broad, it will not work. You also need to set boundaries in time and space. I usually advise my designers to go somewhere else: get out of the studio, go to a cafe to work or stay home and lock yourself up in a room where no one will disturb you. Also, give yourself a strict deadline. Decide what you will focus on that day and stick to that deadline. And don’t forget to allow time for reflection. We set aside time at the studio and then reflect on a project we’ve done.&nbsp;Every creative person needs boundaries. As designers working with clients, we are trained to work within certain limits, but at the same time, we try to step out of that frame and find new combinations of existing elements. That’s where creativity comes in.”&nbsp;<blockquote><h1>“Feeling free to play is essential when coming up with ideas, because when you play you're in a much more creative mood.”&nbsp;</h1></blockquote>

How do you apply creativity in the work you do?&nbsp;JD: “There are different phases in the creative process. When working on a new project, you always start with research. You dive into the subject, collect all these ideas and images, and create a collection of knowledge and inspiration. And then you stop. The biggest enemy of creativity can sometimes be inspiration. That might feel counterintuitive, but my experience is that collecting inspiration for too long will block the creative process.Once you’ve concluded your research, the really hard part comes: resisting the urge to start designing straightaway. It’s very tempting to start thinking about solutions, especially for designers, because that’s what we are trained to do, but it’s vital that you don’t.&nbsp;The next phase is chewing on the material you have gathered. How do the different parts relate to one another? How can I combine stuff? What ideas can I work on? Chew on your material, then let it rest and do something completely different because that's the moment where your unconscious comes in. Things can take hours, days, and sometimes weeks to grow in your unconscious mind. But you will find that once you start working on the project again, ideas will pop up. And then it’s time for the final phase where you refine your ideas. Show it to others, improve on it, make it better.”Could you elaborate on the unconscious? It feels elusive, something that you have little control over.&nbsp;JD: “The unconscious part is really just a phase in the creative process. So first you collect stuff, then you chew on the material, and then it needs to go to your unconscious mind and sit there while you do something else. For example, a lot of people get the best ideas while cycling or taking a shower. In those moments, you are physically active, but your mind can wander. And that’s when ideas pop up. You don’t have to do anything for it; it just happens naturally.”

Isn’t there an inherent tension between allowing time for the creative process and running a studio that involves things clients and strict deadlines?JD: “It’s a tough combination for sure. On the one hand, there's a deadline; on the other hand, you want to have the time to explore new ideas. There’s the certainty of the process and how it works, but there’s also this big unknown in that you don’t know what the end result will be. You just have to be confident that your process is correct.”Has your view on creativity changed throughout your career?JD: “When I look back at what I did 20 years ago, it's more or less the same as what I do now. My role changed, but what I do and the way I do it are still the same. However, my perspective has broadened with each new job. When you start out as a designer, you tend to work solo and are really focused on the project or client at hand. As a design lead, you open yourself up to more perspectives. You open up to clients by thinking with them instead of for them. You're much more open to your team as well and even to society at large.”

<blockquote><h1>“I have this internal drive to do better, I think most creatives can relate to this.”&nbsp;</h1></blockquote>

If what you do, in essence, is the same thing, how do you keep it from becoming repetitive?JD “Challenging myself is not that hard because I'm never really satisfied with what I’ve done. I have this internal drive to do better, I think most creatives can relate to this, and so I see each project as a new opportunity to do better.I also keep pushing myself to learn things. For instance, five years ago, I started the newsletter Halfvet, which is about digital design. It allows me to reflect on what I see and form an opinion. I always look for topics that interest me but that I don't know a lot about, so it's a way for me to learn about this topic."You also work as a guest lecturer: any advice for the next generation of creatives?JD: “As a student, I did a lot of different things, which really helped me find out what I'm good at. I studied graphic design but also worked with video and film. And that gave me a lot of different options. And if I could give one piece of advice to current students, it would be to take your time and not rush through it.&nbsp;It’s nice when you can find one focus point, one thing that really interests you and own that. It can be a specific field of interest or a tool you master. Trying a lot of different things while also having one specialisation really helps you focus your career and be visible to others.And finally, your career consists of phases, just like any creative process. So you start out as a student, get exposed to many different things, and work in other disciplines. And that’s good. Be inspired, try different things. It’s okay that in this phase of your career you don’t yet know what it’s all about. That will become apparent later. Trust the process.”&nbsp;<a href="/profile/jeroen">Check out Jeroen's TIOC page here.</a>

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Jeroen Disch has over 15+ years of experience in branding and digital design. He's worked for renowned agencies, has a deep love for typography, and is the driving force behind Halfvet, a bi-weekly newsletter about digital design and typography. A conversation about the need for play, boundaries and trust.&nbsp;

JEROEN DISCH: TRUST THE PROCESS

So, let’s start with the big question: what is creativity?TC: ”Because I’m an artist, creativity and art go hand in hand: I consider creativity a toolset to create art.”&nbsp;And is that a toolset you naturally possessed or something you acquired over the years?TC: “I had to learn these tools, which is, in essence, a set of thinking techniques. I have narrowed it down to 7 tools that I use in my own art, the workshops I give to companies, and the classes I teach at the Willem de Kooning Academy.&nbsp;The number one thing I always tell people is: dare to think. It’s like that Hannah Arend quote: ‘There are no dangerous thoughts for the simple reason that thinking itself is such a dangerous enterprise.’Overall, people are creative; they just need to find the courage to act on it. So you need to give people both the tools and confidence to help them express all the crazy thoughts and ideas they have.”

<blockquote><h1>"OVERALL, PEOPLE ARE CREATIVE; THEY JUST NEED TO FIND THE COURAGE TO ACT ON IT."&nbsp;</h1></blockquote>

Back to the toolset: you mentioned you have a list of 7 thinking techniques. Care to share some?TC: “Sure. When something isn’t going to plan, try making it worse. We’re so used to thinking about solutions, but if you make the problem bigger and start thinking in contrasts, the answer becomes much more radical.&nbsp;I also believe that two negatives make a positive. When visiting companies, I usually start by listing all the things that annoy people: the irritation inventory. One person might mention that there’s never any soap, while someone else might have a problem with the company’s strict hierarchy. Writing down all these grievances is a very cathartic exercise. But then you combine two of those irritations and end up with something positive. For instance, you make the CEO chef soap. He becomes solely responsible for making sure there is enough soap. As a result, the shortage of soap is history, and it immediately affects the company’s hierarchy.”

But why focus on sources of irritation? It seems a rather negative starting point.TC: “Irritation is innovation. It sounds cheesy, but in my workshops, this little slogan works like a charm. When you are annoyed by something, it means there is an emotion, and emotions are always a good starting point for a project.&nbsp;I tell my students at the Willem de Kooning to always carry a notebook and write down things that annoy, frustrate or anger them. I also urge my students to sketch any idea they may have. Don’t limit yourself to words and texts: start drawing.”

<blockquote><h1>“HERE I THOUGHT I WAS A BRILLIANT ARTIST; TURNS OUT IT COULD ALL BE REDUCED TO A SYSTEM!”</h1></blockquote>

Sound advice. Do you use all these tools in your work as well?TC: “I do, but I wasn’t aware that I did till a friend of mine approached me to give a workshop. He has an advertising agency and liked my work because it links to branding and has a media quality to it. He asked if I could do a presentation for his team. And so I started thinking about my work method. When do I decide to take on a project? It has to move me in some way. And then I think about where I, as an artist, stand in this whole thing and what would make for an interesting standpoint. I concluded that I took the same steps with each project. And that realization scared the hell out of me. Here I thought I was a brilliant artist; turns out it could all be reduced to a system!”

Funny, the very thing that scared you, i.e. your systematic way of working, is what empowers the people you teach in your classroom and workshops.TC: “Exactly! When I present my work, people sometimes wonder how I come up with this stuff. And then, I explain how&nbsp;exactly I come up with this stuff, and it empowers them. I give them very tactile assignments. Ask everybody to bring a newspaper to class and start cutting out stories that move them. And then we use the available tools: make the problem bigger, exaggerate something or bring it closer to home like we did with the MyPolarIce project for which we sold arctic ice on Amsterdam’s Museumplein. Everybody knows the arctic is melting, but what if we sold the last ice in Amsterdam? It’s funny but also incredibly painful. We’re all going down because of hyper-capitalism, and then we take the last arctic ice and turn it into a commercial product.Bringing things closer to home, literally, is also what we did with the Rederij Lampedusa project: we all read and saw the news about refugees sailing to Europe on boats. I wanted to bring them here and let them take part in Sail. But speaking to these former refugees, they had no interest in simply playing a part in an art project, which is why it ended up a social enterprise. That to my is also creativity: having faith in the process, not clinging to original ideas, but allowing things to evolve.”

You were the first man online [on the website www.teun.nu, you could find Teun Castelein on a 1:1 scale], but on the whole, you’re not too bothered with digital art. Why is that?TC: “I think about that a lot. My generation's artists that are doing really well have almost all gone digital. And in 30 to 40 years from now, we’ll look back and say that this was the time of digital awaking, but in all honesty: it doesn’t interest me.&nbsp;My projects can be found in real life, and, sometimes, literally on the street. I want to make work that appeals to a large part of the population. Things like the Flower Corso. Or sand sculptures. I’d also love to do a project using the kind of old-school airbrushing you see on trucks and carnival wagons. I’ve used digital techniques in my work, but I prefer taking a newspaper, lying it on a table, and cutting out stories. I love thinking about new projects, but not behind a computer screen. The biggest creativity blocker? Going online to look for inspiration! Pinterest kills all creativity.”

<blockquote><h1>“PINTEREST KILLS ALL CREATIVITY.”&nbsp;</h1></blockquote>

Want to see more of Teun's work? Check out his <a href="https://tioc.nl/profile/teun%20castelein">TIOC profile</a>, which includes one of his latest projects: Pride Choir.&nbsp;

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Teun Castelein’s (1980) LinkedIn page reads: artist, one-man-conglomerate, social dreamer. It’s the perfect summary of Teun’s work and his entrepreneurial and artistic adventures. Adventures that included a fully corona-proof One Man Flower Parade, selling Arctic ice cubes on Amsterdam’s Museumplein, and setting up a cruise made up of a team of former refugees and a fleet of refugee boats. We spoke to Teun about creativity as a toolset, how irritation fuels innovation and the importance of sharing ideas, however crazy they may seem.

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